This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!'... and Gon's Balls will whisper 'First... comes... rock!' Hah!  Made you stare at Naruto's Marshmallow!  Pushing the logo off-center to drive TheOcean insane.  
 
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  #61  
Old 07-21-2013
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Originally Posted by AllisonWalker View Post
Sociopaths lack a conscious. They don't feel anything for others and are basically out for themselves. Wolves in sheep's clothing, they will pretend to care and feel about others to pass off like the rest of us, but they lack a heart, essentially. You can't fix someone to to feel if they are bent on doing whatever they want. Although in psychology they don't actually use the term "sociopath" as a disorder, they do diagnosis people as having "anti-social personality disorder" and there isn't much you can do for a person like that.
"Impaired social interaction" is the equivalent of what you're trying to get across in sociopathy, from what I'm reading here. Are you willing to make the leap that those with autism and other such mental disorders that affect their ability to pursue normal interpersonal relationships with other people directly translate toward the person affected not having a heart?

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Psychopaths don't so much lack a conscious as they live in their own world and don't believe they have to follow the rules that society creates. They are a huge problem as well (can't really be fixed), but they aren't sociopaths.
Technically the most commonly-used term for psychopathy is antisocial personality disorder.

The distinction you seem to make between the two lies in... what exactly?

I'd like to say it seems to be that one is capable to pursue interpersonal relationships and the other can't but that doesn't seem to be what you're getting across. Maybe one willfully ignores the rules of society and the others can't understand them in the first place? But you seem to be saying both understand them. Maybe one takes advantage of it?

See, I think you've confused something. The two terms don't really hold much of a distinction the way you've presented it, and we can hardly hold you to that. I mean, it's just a troll site on the internet. But if you're going to defend a claim you make, please take care to present it in a way that can't easily be attacked. For example, please directly state the distinction you make between the two terms you've listed so that even an idiot like me with the bare minimum of psychology experience can understand without error.
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  #62  
Old 07-21-2013
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Originally Posted by HolyShadow View Post
"Impaired social interaction" is the equivalent of what you're trying to get across in sociopathy, from what I'm reading here. Are you willing to make the leap that those with autism and other such mental disorders that affect their ability to pursue normal interpersonal relationships with other people directly translate toward the person affected not having a heart?



Technically the most commonly-used term for psychopathy is antisocial personality disorder.

The distinction you seem to make between the two lies in... what exactly?

I'd like to say it seems to be that one is capable to pursue interpersonal relationships and the other can't but that doesn't seem to be what you're getting across. Maybe one willfully ignores the rules of society and the others can't understand them in the first place? But you seem to be saying both understand them. Maybe one takes advantage of it?

See, I think you've confused something. The two terms don't really hold much of a distinction the way you've presented it, and we can hardly hold you to that. I mean, it's just a troll site on the internet. But if you're going to defend a claim you make, please take care to present it in a way that can't easily be attacked. For example, please directly state the distinction you make between the two terms you've listed so that even an idiot like me with the bare minimum of psychology experience can understand without error.
You're just not capable of reading comprehension, are you?
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  #63  
Old 07-21-2013
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No. Back on topic about corrupt judicial systems before I lock this thread.

Normally I am not opposed to letting the subject drift but it has drifted far enough from the original topic and I don't see it getting back around it without interference anytime soon. I say "get back on topic" and that post is ignored. So please don't ignore this one if you want to keep this thread open.
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  #64  
Old 07-21-2013
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I think corruption is bad. they shouldn't do that.

seriously now: what is there to discuss about?
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  #65  
Old 07-21-2013
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Originally Posted by Kronus View Post
I think corruption is bad. they shouldn't do that.

seriously now: what is there to discuss about?
I think that the point of this thread is to talk about in what ways the judicial system can be corrupted, if there are better alternatives, how corrupt it currently is, etc.
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  #66  
Old 07-21-2013
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well, there are several judicial systems, which one do we mean? the one where uneducated random people without knowledge about the case, that can easily be influenced by fake tears, decide over guilt and innocence?
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  #67  
Old 07-21-2013
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I think I understand. Sally's trying to give an example of what a corrupt judicial system looks like. Good show.
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  #68  
Old 07-22-2013
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Normally I would make a joke about Sally restoring order, but in this case, I am just going to say 'thank you'.
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  #69  
Old 07-22-2013
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the easiest way to prevent a corrupt judicial system is to stop giving people reasons to commit crimes. crimes are usually committed because of misery or greed, so we have to establish a world, were everyone is satisfied.
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  #70  
Old 07-22-2013
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the easiest way to prevent a corrupt judicial system is to stop giving people reasons to commit crimes. crimes are usually committed because of misery or greed, so we have to establish a world, were everyone is satisfied.
You would erase misery and greed?

My misery caused me to change to escape my own misery.

My greed makes me want to achieve things I normally wouldn't.

The problem is people like you who create justifications for people to do evil. "It's not their fault, it's society's fault! Let's blame people for being greedy and making them sad!"

We choose to sacrifice who we claim as evil for the good of the society, and feel good that what we're sacrificing for good is evil. If someone chooses to do evil they can learn from it. If someone chooses to be evil their chances are slim. If someone chooses that they don't care in the slightest about others calling them evil then they will reject society at large. Finally, if someone decides they hate society and its flaws, there is no telling what they may do in the name of that hate.

Corruption lies in power. Power lies in dominion. Dominion is a fact of an existence wherein there are multiple intelligent beings. To reverse dominion is anarchy in the worst possible form.
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  #71  
Old 07-22-2013
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Originally Posted by HolyShadow View Post
The problem is people like you who create justifications for people to do evil. "It's not their fault, it's society's fault! Let's blame people for being greedy and making them sad!"
Not quite.
I didn't say it wasn't their fault, but that the reason for their acting lies in the system.
everyone, who can think logically, is guilty when he commits crimes. But still there would be less if no one had a reason to commit them.
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  #72  
Old 07-22-2013
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The best and worst thing about a democracy is the people involved.

The system of Justice much like a system of government is based on Checks and Balances.

However if the people interpreting laws have similar preconceived notions as the people that create them, there are bound to be flaws.
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  #73  
Old 07-22-2013
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Not quite.
I didn't say it wasn't their fault, but that the reason for their acting lies in the system.
everyone, who can think logically, is guilty when he commits crimes. But still there would be less if no one had a reason to commit them.
And there would also be no reason to live. A world without sadness and greed isn't a world I'd like to live in. The choice to do evil is far more important than whether or not people choose to do evil or not.
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  #74  
Old 07-22-2013
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And there would also be no reason to live. A world without sadness and greed isn't a world I'd like to live in. The choice to do evil is far more important than whether or not people choose to do evil or not.
could you explain why you wouldn't want to live in a world where you are never sad?
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  #75  
Old 07-22-2013
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could you explain why you wouldn't want to live in a world where you are never sad?
My sadness is a part of who I am. To reject it is to reject myself. My sadness has a purpose. It makes me grow past what I am. Misery creates change, change creates happiness, happiness creates stagnation, stagnation causes misery. To rip misery out of this cycle removes the reason for changing. To have no change is to condemn ourselves to a life of lighting bonfires, never able to move past the invention of fire and go on to modern technologies. We are not at the end of humanity's growth, and to stop growing is not an efficient path to take nor is it one that culminates in the ultimate human happiness. By ripping out misery you create far more misery in its place. Misery is good.

Remember that there is always a downside to absolutely everything you do, right down to breathing, eating, and defecating into a toilet. Enemies are relative, as are allies. They only exist as such in relation to you, and you only exist in relation to society. The idea that misery is an enemy may be your idea or society's idea but it's never the right idea. Bad can come of good, and good can come of bad.

As biggles and I debated yesterday on skype, civil suits are about making people whole, and criminal suits are about applying justice. In civil suits there may be pain and suffering and psychological trauma taken into consideration, but not in criminal suits. Misery therefore exists but shouldn't be viewed in context of the criminal justice system or the system becomes unfair. Therefore, in the case that those who commit crimes do so because of their misery, the criminal justice system should not take that into consideration. They have chosen to make their lives more miserable.

To remove misery, furthermore, is completely impossible. You can try, but it won't do any good. Most likely it'll just hurt people.

For some reason you seem to think communism is inherently a good thing because of what Marx has promised will result from it but if you ever noticed every pseudo-communist experiment has failed for a plethora of reasons, mainly peppered with human rights issues. I wouldn't say communism is inherently evil but the human understanding of it in relation to our preconceived notions causes it to easily become corrupted. Even the most optimal form sacrifices quite a few people for its ultimate goal, even if that sacrifice isn't through starving them or killing untold numbers of babies in population-control measures, or creating a network of secret police made from former criminals to disappear malcontents overnight.
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  #76  
Old 07-22-2013
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Originally Posted by HolyShadow View Post
My sadness is a part of who I am. To reject it is to reject myself. My sadness has a purpose. It makes me grow past what I am. Misery creates change, change creates happiness, happiness creates stagnation, stagnation causes misery. To rip misery out of this cycle removes the reason for changing. To have no change is to condemn ourselves to a life of lighting bonfires, never able to move past the invention of fire and go on to modern technologies. We are not at the end of humanity's growth, and to stop growing is not an efficient path to take nor is it one that culminates in the ultimate human happiness. By ripping out misery you create far more misery in its place. Misery is good.

Remember that there is always a downside to absolutely everything you do, right down to breathing, eating, and defecating into a toilet. Enemies are relative, as are allies. They only exist as such in relation to you, and you only exist in relation to society. The idea that misery is an enemy may be your idea or society's idea but it's never the right idea. Bad can come of good, and good can come of bad.

As biggles and I debated yesterday on skype, civil suits are about making people whole, and criminal suits are about applying justice. In civil suits there may be pain and suffering and psychological trauma taken into consideration, but not in criminal suits. Misery therefore exists but shouldn't be viewed in context of the criminal justice system or the system becomes unfair. Therefore, in the case that those who commit crimes do so because of their misery, the criminal justice system should not take that into consideration. They have chosen to make their lives more miserable.

To remove misery, furthermore, is completely impossible. You can try, but it won't do any good. Most likely it'll just hurt people.

For some reason you seem to think communism is inherently a good thing because of what Marx has promised will result from it but if you ever noticed every pseudo-communist experiment has failed for a plethora of reasons, mainly peppered with human rights issues. I wouldn't say communism is inherently evil but the human understanding of it in relation to our preconceived notions causes it to easily become corrupted. Even the most optimal form sacrifices quite a few people for its ultimate goal, even if that sacrifice isn't through starving them or killing untold numbers of babies in population-control measures, or creating a network of secret police made from former criminals to disappear malcontents overnight.

okay so:
1.
you are unable to grow without misery. Did I get you right?
that might apply for you, but not for everyone.
You can also do something good for yourself, without being sad. for example, many people start playing games, while they are still happy, they don't wait until they are sad to improve there situation.

2.
yes, good can come from bad, but good can also come from good and good that comes from good is better than good that comes from bad, because that good doesn't require bad.

3.
I agree, emotions are no excuse. But bad emotions still cause crime and there would be less crime, if there were less bad emotions. and with less crime, there would be less corruption in the judicial system, which apparently is the topic.

4.
yes, but you can decrease it

5.
correct, the PSEUDO-communistic systems failed.
Also all capitalistic systems failed, so why should they be better?
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  #77  
Old 07-22-2013
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okay so:
1.
you are unable to grow without misery. Did I get you right?
that might apply for you, but not for everyone.
You can also do something good for yourself, without being sad. for example, many people start playing games, while they are still happy, they don't wait until they are sad to improve there situation.
So your ultimate solution to crippling loneliness is to play video games.

You're extremely simple-minded it seems.

I've seen girls who have been raped, boys that are socially awkward, girls with mental illnesses, boys who are lonely, girls with bad parental relationships, boys with debilitating injuries, girls who've had abortions, boys who've had loved ones die, girls who've buckled down over the pressure of power, boys who've gone homeless with alcohol and drug addiction, and girls who've made the hard choice to abandon boys who they love because their heart just can't handle being broken even one more time by that person.

People require counseling and help. That much is true. But playing video games doesn't combat depression. It's a distraction. If you want to talk about increasing public funding for mental health issues I'm completely behind you. If you're just going to cling to vague things like "just get over it" or "everyone should be happy" then you're an enormous fool and you should shut your mouth before everyone around you realizes that.

Unless, of course, you're willing to change your mind. You know, since you're frustrated by being so wrong. You might even say sad. And changing your mind would ultimately take away the frustration. You might even say it'll make you happy. So then by changing your mind because of your sadness you become happy. Change really is brilliant.

Quote:
2.
yes, good can come from bad, but good can also come from good and good that comes from good is better than good that comes from bad, because that good doesn't require bad.
And bad can come of good. Returning a purse to a woman who leaves it behind in a restaurant can result in them taking the gun they had in it and shooting up an elementary school. How would you reduce misery? Banning their guns? And thus you define that as good, and thus they are the ones being shot at by people who illegally own guns in said school. You must then take responsibility for the black market you have created by banning guns. What do you do? Make it doubly illegal? No, that won't work, it didn't work in the first place. I know! Increase police presence. Including secret police. A spy on every block!

You're a nice little communist now, aren't you?

Quote:
3.
I agree, emotions are no excuse. But bad emotions still cause crime and there would be less crime, if there were less bad emotions. and with less crime, there would be less corruption in the judicial system, which apparently is the topic.
Society can't be held responsible for those who choose to do wrong as long as that society is acting in good faith to protect people that follow its rules as defined by the society at large. Trying to make everyone happy by giving them all bottles and rocking them to sleep is the action of a horrible nanny-state that can't respect its citizens as having their own free will. You'd be a horrible dictator if you had power. Glad you don't.

Quote:
4.
yes, but you can decrease it
To what end? Again, misery is not a bad thing.

Quote:
5.
correct, the PSEUDO-communistic systems failed.
Also all capitalistic systems failed, so why should they be better?
Communists must take responsibilities for the failures of those who misunderstand how to properly implement their system. You're a coward who doesn't want to do that, hiding behind the excuse that they're false manifestations of your dystopian nightmare. They believe in the same system you do. They try their hardest to reach that system. Yet you reject them.
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