View Single Post
Old 03-16-2013
ShizukaMikudou's Avatar
ShizukaMikudou ShizukaMikudou is offline
Gender: Female
Location: United States
Posts: 301
Send a message via Skype™ to ShizukaMikudou

Have a very good night, killshot.

Originally Posted by Ishikawa Oshro View Post
And I have attempted much researching on the rise/decline with numbers involved with atheism. And the general consensus from CNN and other news sites and such all generalize atheism on the rise with the sole reason of people becoming "smarter". The only problem is that you cannot really get a good read on exactly how many atheist there actually are seeing as they tend to not gather like practitioners of a religion.
Hmm. I honestly don't look to the media as a source of true information, as it is well known that the media is the king of brainwashing. Not to say that everything the media says is wrong, but I'm sure everyone knows how the media is often and well used to take advantage of the masses.
Anyway, I have also looked it up and researched it, and many of the most authentic sites admit that the decline of atheists has been due to research proving many atheistic theories wrong, such as evolution, the breaking of the law of cause and effect, and the evidence that proves the impossibility of there being no intelligent design.

The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.

- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry

I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28

I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.

- Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy) Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.

As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.

- Professor Freeman J. of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton

We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.

- John OKeefe (astronomer at NASA) Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 200.

These are only a few quotes from very authentic and prestigious scientists and philosophers - through researching, I found many, many more, actually, but I hope I shouldn't need them all.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared View Post
Plus, as someone who has lived in a Buddhist country and studied alongside Buddhists, I just have to faceplam at this:
Polytheism - the belief in many gods. The gods of most polytheists are far different than the God of Christianity, Catholicism, Methodism, ect., where gods can be anything from a minor spirit to an evil antagonist of the main god to the highest and most powerful god. But they are all still widely known as "gods".

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared View Post
Those obsessed with making atheism a religion, whether they are religious or otherwise, seem to completely miss the point of religion and are just distorting what atheism means.
The main things religions need:
1=Common practices-There is no problem practice among atheists, I do not need to act in a religion way to be an atheist.
2=Scared or holy-There are objects whatsoever linked to atheism.
3=Rules and commonally held principles-There are no rules or principles related to atheism.
4=Belief in the spiritual-(Note, spiritual and deity are different) Atheists do not have to believe anything to be an atheist, they just need to lack belief in deity.
5=Set of common cultural ideals and values=atheism has no culture, idealogy or values.
6=Unity=there is no unity or organisation that is by definition atheist, there are movements made up of atheists, but these are pressure groups made up to promote atheism at most, and as such, they seem to be more social pressure groups. To call them the foundations of a religion would make organisations like Greenpeace a religion.
7=Faint=Atheism is founded on a lack of faint, if anything.
I could go on, but I think the point is there, religion is a quite defined cultural construct, atheism is just a state of being.
It is just the opposite of that, that you think everyone is obsessed with proving atheism a religion. Proving that atheism is on the same category level as all other official religions is one of the least of my concerns, especially since there should be no worth while reason for people to want to deny that atheism is a religion. If atheism is what you have said it is, then it is the those who wish to make it a non-religion who are distorting their very own belief. If you are not distorting your belief, and would like to think that "atheism" really is a non-religion, then you can only be the most extreme form of agnostic to actually believe in no philosophy whatsoever. That should mean no belief in evolution, individualism, freedom, justice, morality, absolutely nothing. As Albert Einstein has said - "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." You cannot have reality or even an opinion without the existence of religion.
1=What do atheists do that nobody else does? Religious practices aren't just a strange ritual with magic circles - they are anything in life that you do which is affected by your worldview. Most Christians do not commit suicide because they believe it is murder. Most Christians strive to be kind, forgiving, and loving, even toward their enemies. I won't explain all the practices of all the other religions, but religion isn't all about the praying and worshiping - it's about innate moral values, which are directly connected to one's religion and worldview.
2=While some religions have objects that mean more than their physical form to the people following that religion, and others simply represent a symbol, once more: it is not about the practices, objects, or symbols. It's about the belief, which is a part of one's worldview, which is the foundation for that person's philosophy and opinion on reality itself.
3=That is a self-destructing statement. You can never say, "There are no rules" or "There is no truth" or "There are no principles" for each one of those statements contradicts itself. If there are no rules, then there is no order, and there is no law. If there is no truth, then nothing ever said can be true, including the statement itself. If there are no principles, then why don't we all just start stealing money from each other and killing each other to get what we want? Who ever said it was wrong to do that? Benjamin Franklin? What does he know, if there are no principles? That is an extreme example, but not far from the truth of a world of pure atheism.
4=Atheists believe in the lack of a deity. Everyone here has said that countless times, and thus has proven in atheism's status as being on the same category as all the other religions. Atheists only believe in the physical world and that they can see and touch, yet they believe truth is relative. I could write endless lists of contradictions in atheistic philosophy.
5=Again, as I have said before. You can't not believe in anything, and the closest thing that comes to the practice of choosing not to accept any philosophy whatsoever is agnosticism. But even so, agnostics are either ignorant or blind until they inquire for themselves in order to construct their own worldview. Even a newborn baby has its worldview, a selfish worldview in which it wants food and shelter in order for it to survive.
More contradictions: "Atheism has no culture" Then are you all robots? No, even robots have a culture - repetitive and programmed actions. Living your daily life requires a culture, and culture at all, or else the only way to have no culture is to be dead.
Culture - The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
"Atheism has no ideology" What a progressive group atheists are, just existing without ideology. You're either an atheist with your own worldview, moral values, ect., or in the least you'd be a true agnostic, believing in nothing, and contributing absolutely nothing to society. If you have no ideas or ideals, then why are you even debating?
Ideology - A system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political policy
"Atheism has no values"
Values - The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance or preciousness of something: "your support is of great value".
I know nobody in history or in real life who has no values. The only people who have ever said such a thing as that they have no values that I've ever heard of are the ones in mental distress. Do you not value your life, your family, your friends, your well-being, anything? If it were true that atheists hold no values, then either all atheists are actually not atheists, very confused, or a group of people that no one should trust.
6="Atheism has no unity" Well atheists, for the most part, believe in the same philosophies, and think their beliefs to be the truth.
Unity - Harmony or agreement between people or groups.
For the most part, atheists agree with each other's philosophies, as those philosophies are shared by themselves. Seriously, imagine atheism without unity. Does that mean every atheist is alone in his or her beliefs? Yet atheists all call themselves atheists, and claim that they believe in atheism. In the very least, if their beliefs really were so independent, they shouldn't claim atheism as their worldview at all.
7=Now you're talking about a whole new sub-genre in your philosophy. Are you telling me about a philosophy that everything is just in our minds? That philosophy is not unheard of, but it doesn't sound like what you've been saying. That theory is an entire philosophy on its own terms.
The other possibility is that you're using some other definition of faint, and every definition that I've looked up makes absolutely no sense in your sentence.
The only noun definition, however, of faint, is a sudden loss of consciousness, which also makes no sense at all xD

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared View Post
As for worldviews, well I think calling atheism a worldview overstates atheism by some degree unless you define your whole existence by 1 single concept, which seems simplistic to me. I also think calling religion a worldview rather understates religion, of course, if religious groups what to just give being organised intuitions and social groups, and become just set of commonly held beliefs with no real affirmative actions, then I wholly support their just giving view on the modern religion. ;)
Can we all agree that the terms worldview and religion are difficult to define correctly in this situation?
There are many minor groups that have their own personal set of beliefs unique to themselves, but not always unique. With the way you've been defining religion, you could call Democracy and Republicanism religions. You could call the Ku Klux Klan a religious organization. Some people have even thought Nazi's to have their own religion. But the major religions that we know today are certainly different than democracy or "beiber fever". For example, Christianity itself has many subcategories, including Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Protestant, ect., which each have their own different interpretations of the Bible and the Christian belief, however all of them believe in one singular defining belief - that Jesus Christ is our Savior. I, myself, don't consider myself any of the subcategories - only Christian. That doesn't make me an agnostic Christian, for I have my firm beliefs and my own worldview. The defining singular belief that identifies Atheists is the belief in no god. Even Judaism has long since separated from Christianity in that the Jews do not believe in the New Testament or Jesus Christ, disregarding the most important tenet of the Christian faith. While religion is used to label major worldviews like Christianity, it is also used to label subcategories like Communism, which is also Atheist. This is why the terms worldview, religion, cults and beliefs sometimes have their definitions blurred. I hope that with this in mind, we can overcome the confusion when using these words. ^^

Last edited by ShizukaMikudou; 03-16-2013 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Spellcheck.
Reply With Quote